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Give Me A Break!   (Read 2883 times)
wsholland
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #15 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 1:24am
 
I personally believe that everyone is ripped off to some degree somewhere in the music or movie industry.  As I see it, it is all in the name of the game.  Actors and actresses that we grew up with and watched on television are capable of living under bridges and becoming homeless while we still to this day watch re-runs of the shows.  Same for the music industry.  My "so-called" teenagers, which I never claimed them to be are the people that are asking for the game and because of this, someone under the age of 40 even knows who the Romantics are.  The Romantics take on Sony? Surely you are JOKING right? This has nothing to do with anything more than they want some money for playing one of there songs on a kids game. I say personally, take it off, delete the Romantic song entirely and place another southern rock song on there.  I see the kids playing the game and if the Romantics feel that their song and reputation not to mention band itself is bigger than the other bands whose songs are being played on Guitar Hero then more power to them.  I have family in the industry and they may even have a song or two of there own on one of the Guitar Hero games and do not seem to be upset, in fact I do believe they feel flattered in some ways.  Money management in the early days will determine if you are 50 yrs old and threatening a video game if you are not compensated with money money money.  For those that feel that the music industry is "racking the Romantics" please feel free to research the many older actors and actresses you are watching on television and see what sort of compensation each of them received. 
And, if in fact you are watching a re-run that they actor or actress was not or is not compensated for, please feel free to turn the channel.  This should limit your television viewing!
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rockford_boy
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #16 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 1:29am
 
Another example of the "weasel" music industry from a very well known rip off artists.

Songwriter Salvatore Acquaviva's suit had alleged that Madonna's 1998 hit off the album Ray of Light plagiarized parts of his song, Ma Vie Fout L'camp (My Life's Getting Nowhere), which had been written five years earlier.

"The judge has ruled Madonna must withdraw from sales all remaining disks, and orders that TV and radio can no longer play Frozen," Acquaviva's lawyer, Victor-Vincent Dehin, said.

The Romantics case has merit and enough proof from the recorded versions to make it through the courts. The issue at hand is the proper fee to using the music and how it is used. Elvis painted on black velvet is still Elvis and eventhough he didn't sit for the painting the legal holder of his "image" is due compensation, because it is that "image" that sells the product.

To quote my favorite comic book writer (also a victim of copyright, image and intellectual theft) Stan the Man Lee "Nuff Said".
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rockford_boy
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #17 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 1:36am
 
I don't watch TV and as far as "ripped off" TV stars are concerned they have only 5 -10 years beyond the life of the show for compensation on replay. If the series is sold as a download (sound like a familiar strike rational) then they should get compensation for their "being". That depends on the contract. The 3 Stooges are great example of that "rip-off", they eventually made millions and millions, but only decades after the death of two of their brothers.

No reply about "stealing" from the illegal downloads, then that shows to me where your lack of character lies.

Can't wait for the next "dodging" from the truth post will lead. My guess it may involve all the copies of movies you have made from Blockbuster Video. If I rent it, I own it and can do what I want with it.
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rockford_boy
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #18 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 1:51am
 
Here is some more fodder for you legally challenged posters of the "Game World". Ibanez Guitars felt the sting of "image" stealing from Rickenbacker guitars back in the 80's.

(admission of error - Rick did not sue, it was Gibson)

Why, Ibanez copied the look of the 4000/4001 series of instruments, slapped their name on it and then sold them around the globe. "Image" is everything and "yes" even sound came be legally owned. Such as the Rockman by Tom Scholz and Brian May's famous hand made guitar. You cannot sell anything that sounds like those items without getting permission or you will get a spanking.

I for one, and not including yourself (Mr. New poster), can easily state that knowing the LONG (nearly a decade) legal battle this band took to re-claim their music catalog and "image" of The Romantics is something they have a right to defend.

Sony, btw, has and is being sued by several groups for royalty compensation violations. But, I guess in your world the creator of a piece of creative work should do nothing and follow the lemmings off the cliff.



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rockford_boy
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #19 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 2:10am
 
http://hypebot.typepad.com/hypebot/2006/04/allmans_and_che.html

There is the link to a story about your beloved Sony and what is done to the people signed in the 70's and early 80's.

There really isn't much more to point out to you.

Guitar Hero, owned by Sony. The Romantics catalog owned by Sony.

Hmmmmm, see a connection here. I think even Rosie O. would be able to prove this case.
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solodka
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #20 - Nov 24th, 2007 at 7:33am
 
Oh my gosh!  There are brains out there!  Why did it take so long?!!! Wink Right on Rockford Boy!



The issue here is Activision cheaped out. They could have secured full rights for the original song, at additional cost, but instead chose to only pay for the rights to cover the song. Then they proceeded to make a version that sounded exactly like the original. It's not like Activision isn't making a fortune. They really don't need to rip off the artists that made this game a hit. I think its pretty sleazy on their part.
posted by : Chris Nickel-Felton, 23 November 2007

Right on Chris

Sorry -- there's precedent here. If you deliberately do a cover that sounds too much like the original as to cause confusion, you're likely to be sued. Maybe this is one of those cases where the rest of the world really needs a good explainin' from the Slashdot populace, but nonetheless, this is how the rest of the world works for the time being.

For those of you with Westlaw, look up Midler v. Ford Motor Company. Ford hired one of Bette Midler's background singers to do an exact copy of Midler's vocal style on a cover of one of her songs ("Do You Want To Dance") for an ad for the Mercury Sable. They did this because it was cheaper than hiring Midler, so they set out to attempt to confuse the audience. It worked -- I knew people who swore that it was the Bette Midler version. Midler sued; Ford lost.

What the makers of GH want has absolutely no bearing here. What matters is what they are legally entitled to get. If you don't want to pay up to use the original recording, you don't get to record a soundalike. To avoid being sued, you do a re-interpretation, no matter how much you want something that sounds just like the original article, without having to pay for it.

This is little band vs. big corporation here. I can't believe that some people think it should be simple as "explaining" to the band that they have no case because the big company wanted an exact copy of their song, but didn't want to pay for the privelege. Big companies should not have the ability to trample the little guy's rights simply because they "want" something. Sure, it happens enough... but why are Slashdotters suddenly supporting this notion?

Right on Shark!

"presumabley they're trying the "sue for the world, settle out of court for what they really want" tactic."

It's not that. It's "We never got a dime for this shit when it was popular, but now that we have our own stuff back, we'd like to have our contracts followed, thanks"

They got screwed over by Joel Zuckerman and Arnie Tencer and never saw a dime for "What I like about you" when it was popular. All those Molson and Budweiser commercials? Nothing. Zero, zilch. They had to tour for _7 years_ to finance the lawsuit to recoup _something_, and they eventually won judgments but were unable to collect because Zuckerman and Tencer didn't have any visible assets.

The only important thing they got back was control of the original copyrights, many years after being popular.

Given the history of The Romantics, I'm not surprised they're trying to stick up for themselves.

A history lesson:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=5363 [metrotimes.com]

--
BMO

And way to go BMO just to name a few people who are now making sense to something that seems so nonsensical to everyone else!
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pinkbubelz
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Reply #21 - Nov 26th, 2007 at 1:19am
 
Here's my take on things...

Visual and Performing artists have been short-changed for a long time...Many artists who "should" be getting paid for their works are not, due to loopholes in the legal systems...  In the end, it DOES hurt the artist and the public as well.

Derivative works are supposed to be just that "DERIVATIVE".  In other words, when The Romantics released the rights for GH to create a cover of their song, they did not say that GH could make an exact copy, they were allowing them to make a copy that is a reasonable reproduction of the original work.  Emphasis is on the words, REASONABLE REPRODUCTION. The Romantics allowed GH to make a cover version, but they did not agree to have GH mis-represent it to the public as the version by The Romantics.

For example, if a company takes a photo from a famous artist and then makes a color copy to sell to the public, they need to let the public know that what they are buying is a reproduction.  In no way is the color copy the original, and to represent it as such to the public would be mis-leading and fraudulent. I know some buyers who won't buy anything but original art--They believe in the integrity of the original artist's works and that's the whole reason why they insist on buying an original vs. a copy.  If they do buy a copy, it's because they know that it's a copy and they don't expect to pay the price of the original and they also don't expect to receive an exact copy. To knowingly sell a copy and to tell the public it's an original would be wrong.

Another way to look at it is this:

If someone makes a color copy of a $100 bill on paper that looks, feels, smells or even tastes like the original paper, that doesn't make it worth $100.  It's still a counterfeit.  I would be pretty pissed off if I got a conterfeit bill and expected to be able to spend it and to get my $100 worth out of it.  It's not worth the paper it's printed on, and no matter how closely it resembles a true $100 bill, it's not.... 

Okay, it's time to go back to math class and to do a simple story problem....

Think of how much you spent on the GH game (currently approx. $50.00 for a new game) 
Now think of how many times you play that game a day, a week, a month, a year.   
Let's say you play that game 5 times a day-- that would be 1296 times a year. 
Divide the cost of the game by the number of times you play it
and you start to realize how LITTLE you are paying for each play.
At the cost of about $50.00 per game that would mean that each time you play it in 1 year,
the cost for the game would be only about $0.03 to you.
With 30 songs on the game, that works out to be a cost of only $0.001 per song
that YOU as the consumer pay each time you play it in a year.

At $50 cost per each GH and 30 songs per game,
that's a budget of about $1.67 per song. 
Since most of the time, artists only get about 1% of the cost on a CD,
that means each artist might get about $0.16 per song...
GH didn't pay for the rights to the originals,
so let's say they only paid the artists 25% of their cost ($0.16) to cover it.
That means the artist would only get about $0.04 per song...

Let's say the original artists only gets $0.04 per game if GH covers their song
and maybe $0.16 per game if they use the original version.   
Now, let's multiply that by 1,000,000 game sold. 
That means only $40,000.00 for the artist if they only get $0.04 per game
and $160,000 if they get $0.16 per game.   

Don't forget, even if GH is paying $4.80 for all 30 songs on the game ($0.16 each for original versions),
they are still making a profit of $45.20 per game. 
That means that GH makes $45,200,000 per 1,000,000 games.   
(If you want to be conservative and say that GH only make 1/2 of that amount due to store mark-ups,
it still equals to $22,600,000 to GH. 

Even pennies on the dollar add up to a lot of money once you multiply it by the millions that GH is raking in by selling their games to eager players....

So, please tell me how suing GH for copyright infringement is something that will hurt GH in a big way?
I sure wish I could make $22,600,000 by selling a game to eager young gamers....

In my mind, this is not just an issue of money for the band, but an issue of principal.
If GH wanted an original, then they should have paid for the original. 
To mis-represent their copy as an original is not right....and they are are making a huge profit.


--Pinkbubelz (aka Iris)
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Never Give Up! Never Surrender! ~ Galaxy Quest&&&&A Romantics Fanatic since the tender age of 14...
pinkbubelz pinkbubelz  
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solodka
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #22 - Nov 26th, 2007 at 2:11am
 
Whoa Pink!  Break out the calculator~ That's really quite sad when you break it down like that! Angry
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solodkasertze  
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quarky42
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #23 - Nov 28th, 2007 at 4:54am
 
The point of a cover *IS* to sound as good as possible.

Sure, some people bought Guitar Hero 2, never having played it or seen a demo of it.  That is true of ANY game.

However, MOST people bought Guitar Hero 2 after playing it at a friends house, playing GH1, or playing a demo of it.  The majority of people could clearly see that not all songs were performed by the original band.

If Romantics were suing to have Activision put a statement on the case that said: "Some songs are performed by cover bands" that would be great...but they aren't.  They are suing for damages, as far as I could tell.

You can't have damages from using a cover band.  That would be like going out and buying a license to use a particular race car in a race, but then getting sued when the owner of that race car said that you drove that car TOO WELL.  It's a crazy concept.

Romantics don't deserve any money for something that was already licensed.   Proving that the publisher intended to deceive the buyers is going to be very hard when most of the buyers are already pretty familiar with how the game works.   I knew that most of the songs were covers before I bought the game.   I would not have based my buying decision on whether or not the Romantics song was a cover or a direct performance.

Romantics should have negotiated better, rather than whine later.  Maybe next time they will have some more respect for what a cover band is capable of doing.

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jonnie2224
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #24 - Nov 28th, 2007 at 6:41am
 
This all would have been easier if they just would have purchased the master instead of taking the CHEAP way out and having it redone !!! Now they are doing it properly with the new games and using the originals !!!!
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Rob
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Re: Give Me A Break!  
Reply #25 - Nov 28th, 2007 at 12:00pm
 
The Romantics have been screwed over in their career more than most would ever want to admit. I am one of those who witnessed many shows done by the band, in the early 90's, in parking lots and other horrible venues just to make some money while fighting their 7 year lawsuit. It was won, although they will never recoup moneys much deserved of them.

It sounds to me like they have a valid beef with Guitarhero, and every right to a legal claim.  I am not worried about what a bunch of pre teens and teens think of the Romantics after the suit because they are not going to go out and buy Romantics music anyway.  Again, if Guitarhero just would have done the right thing in the first place they would not be in this predicament.
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